Dutch Men Who Live with Their Parents

I don’t know who you are, but someone came to this blog looking for information on Dutch men who live with their parents.

Stop. Turn around. And go. You do NOT want to be with a Dutchman who lives with his parents. There are certain cultures in this world where people live with their parents until marriage and beyond. The Netherlands is NOT one of them!!! The boy has mother issues. (I don’t care if he’s 42, if he still lives with his parents, he’s a boy.)

The boy needs a mother and if you for some reason ends up cohabitating with him, he will expect you to be his mother, even if you have a job outside the home and are the sexiest little number to grace the land of cheese and tulip. And let me tell you, even if you are the most fab cook in the world and have won Top Chef three seasons running, your cooking will never be as good as his mothers.

“Oh, but I like him,” you say. Yeah, good. He’s human so he probably has some redeeming qualities. And perhaps you’re alone in a foreign country so you’re feeling a bit insecure. But you’re not his mother. And after you get over your initial loneliness and insecurities, you will meet a man who treats you for the fine young thing you are.

“But he has a reason…” What? He can’t do his own laundry? He just came back to Cloggie Land after rebuilding the dams of New Orleans and can’t find a new dam to rebuild and pay his rent? Uhm, no. The Dutch area very do-it-yourself kind of people. Go check out your nearest Doe-Het-Zelf or Gamma store for evidence.

The Dutch are not known for being the terribly most romantic people. But they are independant and reliable and will help you build that closet from Ikea. These skills might be lacking if all the closets in his house were built by his Dad in 1984.

So no. Do not date Dutch men who live with their parents. There are a lot of other hot, nice Dutch men out there who have their own place.


Dating advice: Dutch men and Russian women

A Russian friend of mine in Moscow (we met while we were both living in NYC) is dating a Dutchman who is also living in Moscow. She asked me for some in insights on the Dutch character so she could try to decipher some of the cultural differences she is experiencing. Now, of course, I don’t know much about Russian dating life — all I know is what I’ve read on the internet to try and decipher the cultural differences the Ukrainian and I were first experiencing. So I’ve kept is pretty one-sided to the Dutch.


Hi [redacted],

I am sorry I did not reply earlier. My time in the Netherlands was bittersweet and I was not prepared to think about it.

What happened with the Dutch boyfriend? Well…we had an appointment to look at a house to buy, and 2 days before the appointment, the Dutchman came to my house to tell me he had changed his mind and thought I should return to the States.

The Dutch government makes it very difficult for a foreign partner to settle in the Netherlands. My cousin went through the process (she lives in the Den Haag) — though finally escaped the worst of it as she’s actually married to a Frenchman rather than a Dutchman.

Anyway, my ex-boyfriend aside, in addition to their absolute handsomeness, Dutchmen tend to be extremely reliable and honest. They are highly unlikely to cheat on their partner. If you are with a Dutchman for a month, there is a high chance you will be with him for years, if not decades. If you are with him for a bit of time, you might find his family considering you their daugther-in-law as the Dutch often do not get married. They will meet, move in together soon afterwards, buy a house together, have some babies and maybe only then consider marriage. They don’t play a lot of games in a romance (unlike American courtship/dating). If you are with someone you are with someone.

The Dutch also don’t go in for a lot of drama. In some ways, I found this refreshing. But in other ways, it was difficult. Sometimes you need to have a good fight about something to clear the air and get your views heard. I find that Dutch people often shut down emotionally. For as honest and direct as they are in the simple day-to-day, they don’t handle confrontation well.

Dutchmen also aren’t particularly known for being romantic. It is true, they split the costs for seemingly everything and they are more likely to help you build a closet from Ikea than to buy you flowers or jewely. My boss’s wife of 20 years told me that if I wanted flowers or jewelry, I’d have to buy them myself, no Dutchman would buy them for me.

But!! I have to say, if your boyfriend is adequately Russified, then you might get the best of both worlds. If you can get the reliability and solidness of a Dutchman combined with the flowers and tokens of affection and romance as you would with a Russian, you definitely have a keeper!!! 🙂

I do want to know more about how things are going with your man. I find the Dutch people who live abroad tend to be extremely cool, Unfortunately for me, I was living in Rotterdam surrounded by people who thought that moving 6 km away from their parents was a big token of independence. Not all Dutch people are like that.


*I would take this out of letter form, but I am busy, busy…..

Green Card Timeline

As I mentioned yesterday, the Ukrainian received his Green Card. Yay! It only took 5 months and 18 days from the submision of our application and the receipt the of the Green Card. Entire time line of the Ukrainian’s progress to becoming an American is below!

16-Apr-2007     The Ukrainian arrives in San Francisco from Kiev.

??-May-2007      The Ukrainian responds to my Craigslist W4M ad.

08-Jun-2007     The Ukrainian and I meet in person at Tlaloc in San Francisco’s Financial District.

01-Sep-2007    The Ukrainian moves into my apartment in San Francisco’s Noe Valley.

16-Feb-2008    The Ukrainian proposed to me on Pacific Beach in San Diego with a ring from Tiffany’s.

19-Mar-2008    The Ukrainian and I are married in San Francisco’s city hall with 4 friends as witnesses.

09-May-2008    The Ukrainian and I submit our application to the USCIS (INS) for his green card.

June-2008         USCIS tells us that it does not have a copy of the Ukrainian’s birth certificate. We resubmit.

28-Jul-2008      The Ukrainian’s travel parole and work authorization permit arrive in the mail.

Aug-2008          We receive our letter inviting us to our green card interview for 19-SEP-2008

Aug-2008          We receive a letter canceling our 19-SEP-2008 green card interview with no explanation.

Aug-2008.         The Ukrainian visits the USCIS. Discovers it has our address recorded as Brooklyn. Fixes it.

Sep-2008           We receive a new letter inviting us to a new green card interview for 16-OCT-2008.

16-Oct-2008     Green Card interview.

23-Oct-2008     Receive a “Welcome to the United States of America” letter from Dept. of Homeland Security.

27-Oct-2008     Receive the greencard. Yay! 🙂

Oct-2010           Must renew Green Card.

Oct-2011           The Ukrainian is eligible for U.S. Citizenship.

As you can see from the timeline above, it only took us 5 1/2 months from the submission of our application for the green card to actually receiving it. It was only 2 1/2 months from the submission of our application until the Ukrainian received his work permit and travel parole. This is much, much better than many other countries. I’ve had friends and relatives who’ve gone through the same process and had to wait 1 1/2 years to be able to work. And *then* they have to take an integration course for a year.

Uncle Sam is not so bad for most people.

I think it helped that the Ukrainian has a PhD from his home country and is pursuing an MBA. Plus, honestly, I think the U.S. would like to see Ukraine be more Western/European leaning rather than Russian-leaning. Anything to make the U.S. look better to Ukrainians has to be a factor in our quick success.

How the night really ended (inquiring minds wanted to know)

We exited the club around 1 a.m. — early by clubbing standards, but almost 12 hours had passed since we first met. In my mind, it was time to part. We walked up Nob Hill on Taylor Street to where we had left his vintage 1993 forest green Jeep Cherokee. As we climbed into the jeep, he asked “What do you want to do next,” eying the city with all its lights and its possibilities that lied below.

“Mmm…I was sort of thinking it’s time to go home. But what do you want to do?”

Below us, lied countless boutique hotels and the name-brand Westins, Marriots and Hyatts. Above us were the posh Fairmont, Ritz-Carlton, and Mark Hopkins. My Ukrainian was also thinking it was time to retire for the evening…but not to his student rental in the Outer Sunset.

“We don’t have to go,” he said. “We could stay here.”

“Stay here? You mean get another drink? I think the bars are closing soon…and besides…it’s late.” I wasn’t sure my ears had heard his implication right. Perhaps he meant something else. After all, he had been in the States for less than two months. His English was nowhere near fluency.

“No, no. We could stay here. Downtown. We can stay in any room we like. I am tired. Let’s sleep here.”

Was this man crazy? Did he think that just because we had just spent 12 fun-filled hours together that I was going to sleep with him in some hotel? We hadn’t so much as kissed.

“No.” I shook my head. “I have to get home to my dogs. They haven’t been out in hours. I need to walk them. You need to go home.”

Always, the excuse of my dogs for calling a night a day.

Lesson One: Me, Rosetta Stone, and My Ukrainian Husband

In May 2007, I placed an ad in the W4M section of San Francisco’s CraigsList looking for the usual suspect: a  smart, attractive, fincially secure man who loved dogs. My ad was much more cleverly worded than that, but in essence, it was all I wanted. I wasn’t sure that I was looking for serious relationship  per se — I had had enough of those in recent years — but I knew I was looking for someone on whom I could count and also would let me hold my own. I received a decent number of replies and started dating a successful executive at a major biotech firm. While nothing was ‘wrong’ with how things were going with the exec, it didn’t feel ‘right’ either.

So in early June, while the exec and I were still dating, I went back to my CraigsList replies and my eyes settled on the photo of a tall, blond Ukrainian business student. “He’s cute,” I thought. “Almost too cute. But I will give it a shot.” On June 8, 2007 — the same day I was scheduled to go rockclimbing with the biotech exec — the Ukrainian and I had our first date. We met for lunch. Lunch turned into a movie. After the movie, there was dinner. And dinner was followed by a drink at a bar which wasn’t far from some dance clubs…so we went clubbing. Barely more than 9 months later, we were married in San Francisco’s city hall.

So far, it has felt as if our first date has never ended.

Tonight, I’ve begun my lessons in learning Russian. Since we don’t expect to travel to the FSU until sometime in 2009, I have the leisure of learning at my own pace. I don’t yet need to know how to say, “How do I get to the Metro?” As such, I am opting for the Rosetta Stone method. I completed section A of Lesson 1 tonight. I can say dog, cat, woman, girl etc. We’ll see how it goes.